Just two questions :)

NS-Icon · 29th March 2005

Hi there,

Seems like my colleague NS-Addict has started off with a bad start on this forum

failing to adhere to the forum rules.

Anyway, ensuring I don’t make the same mistake had a couple of questions:

1) Do you not feel that an instant ban was unwarranted? Indeed my colleague did make a mistake and failed to read the forum rules which are clearly outlined.

However, we operate on a number of forums some of which are extremely busy, and each forum has similar rules, and most forum administrators / moderators are more than happy to provide pointers to new members, it seems that this is not the case here at Forum2.co.uk, you find it more appealing to ban members instead for minor mistakes on failing to read the forum rules.

Just curious

2) As a web host which focuses on customers needs, I feel that you seem to favour website hosts as apposed to clients hosting needs on Forum2.co.uk, is that the case?

I ask because I read this under the advertising policy section:

5. Participants from other web hosting companies may not trash their competitors' threads; this includes posting a better offer in reply.

So if a user was requesting hosting information from various web hosts, and a web host issued a reply, would it not then be trashing a competitors post if I was to directly respond as well as other competitors or fellow hosting providers in the same business as I like to refer to them?

Again, just curious and would love to have your feedback on the above.

luke · 29th March 2005

Good Morning!

Quote:

1) Do you not feel that an instant ban was unwarranted? Indeed my colleague did make a mistake and failed to read the forum rules which are clearly outlined.
However, we operate on a number of forums some of which are extremely busy, and each forum has similar rules, and most forum administrators / moderators are more than happy to provide pointers to new members,
it seems that this is not the case here at Forum2.co.uk, you find it more appealing to ban members instead for minor mistakes on failing to read the forum rules.

How busy you are and how many other forums you post on is irrelevant, this is a service, it has rules, you should read them and adhere to them.
I would imagine you want all your users to fully read and understand your rules / terms of service before they sign up for an account! It's no different here.
Or do you think it's acceptable for people to abuse your services just because they use similar servers elsewhere or there busy? I didn't think so.

Quote:

2) As a web host which focuses on customers needs, I feel that you seem to favour website hosts as apposed to clients hosting needs on Forum2.co.uk, is that the case?

I ask because I read this under the advertising policy section:

5. Participants from other web hosting companies may not trash their competitors' threads; this includes posting a better offer in reply.

So if a user was requesting hosting information from various web hosts, and a web host issued a reply, would it not then be trashing a competitors post if I was to directly respond as well as other competitors or fellow hosting providers in the same
business as I like to refer to them?

As far as I'm aware the rule is to stop people posting there own offers or services in a competitors' thread(s). Not to prevent hosts from answering questions if they are asked.

Here is an example of what the rule (as far as I understand it) is there to prevent:
If I made a thread offering my services it would not be acceptable for another host to post a reply to my thread offering there own services.
There is nothing stopping them from posting information about there services in there own thread. (as long as they follow the advertising rules)

NS-Icon · 29th March 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Good Morning!

How busy you are and how many other forums you post on is irrelevant, this is a service, it has rules, you should read them and adhere to them.
I would imagine you want all your users to fully read and understand your rules / terms of service before they sign up for an account! It's no different here.
Or do you think it's acceptable for people to abuse your services just because they use similar servers elsewhere or there busy? I didn't think so.

As far as I'm aware the rule is to stop people posting there own offers or services in a competitors' thread(s). Not to prevent hosts from answering questions if they are asked.

Here is an example of what the rule (as far as I understand it) is there to prevent:
If I made a thread offering my services it would not be acceptable for another host to post a reply to my thread offering there own services.
There is nothing stopping them from posting information about there services in there own thread. (as long as they follow the advertising rules)

Hi there Luke,

Thanks for the responsive reply, in response to your first question.

Yes I understand clearly this is a service with rules which should be followed. Yes, our company as with all other companies and services have rules and TOS service which should be followed, but if a client of ours fails to read, understand or misses something in our rules or TOS, does not imply that we will cancel his hosting effective immediately, we would issue a notice to inform the client and to ensure he/she understands the rules to prevent it from happening again in the future.

When I mentioned other forums, it was relevant to the post otherwise it would not have been mentioned. The reason it was outlined was simply due to the fact that we all post on more than one forum, just because an aspect of the TOS / Rules is missed should not automatically warrant a immediate ban, why not just notify the user via PM or E-mail to ensure it does not occur again?

This is not the only forum where mistakes with TOS / Rules are made for new users, we has similar issues with WebHostingTalk.com, when we started there we has issues with rules and TOS too, but we where not immediately banned. Instead we where contacted by various administrators / moderators who where more than happy to point the errors.

You will clearly see they are doing something right, their hospitality towards new users is very kind and welcoming and their daily active member stats shows that clearly.

I just feel that forum2.co.uk had a very aggressive response towards my college who was indeed a new user and did indeed fail to adhere to the forum rules, but I feel this could have been resolved in a kinder and less aggressive manner which at least would imply the forum welcomes new users.

The actions taken by the forum administrator on NS-Addict where aggressive, and could have been dealt more appropriately using alternative methods. No need to point out the fact that forum rules / TOS where not followed, as I am well aware of that, but there is more than one method to deal with a situation which also implies a welcome to the community. The initial response and action from the administrator felt aggressive and implied the forum2.co.uk was very unforgiving to newcomers.

Personally, the web host group’s aspect could be dealt with more easily by just restricting posts unless a user is a member of the group as apposed to notices in the TOS / Rules if this needs to be restricted in such a manner that it warrants an immediate ban.

With regards to the second question,

That’s great as that was what I understood it as, but just wanted to be sure so no other mistakes are followed, there is never any harm in asking and being clear.

Regards,

markcastle · 29th March 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

I just feel that forum2.co.uk had a very aggressive response towards my college who was indeed a new user and did indeed fail to adhere to the forum rules, but I feel this could have been resolved in a kinder and less aggressive manner which at least would imply the forum welcomes new users.

Welcome to forum2 :-)

The mods used to treat every spammer in the way you are suggesting... it didn't work, and this forum isn't a democracy i'm afraid.

I use this forum every day and personally i'm glad they keep the crap at bay with the policies that are in place.

NS-Icon · 29th March 2005

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

Sorry Mark, I would have to disagree with you there, if the moderators / administrators of this forum had adopted the strategy I outline it would have worked without fail.

If a forum the size of WebHostingTalk.com can maintain their policies and they average over 800 active users a day, I cannot see how forum2.co.uk which is significantly smaller and probably far less active a forum fails to be able to manage the job at its current size.

Do you adopt the same policy with your own customers? Do you treat new users to your hosting service in the same manner? So if one of your customers fails to understand a TOS / Rule to your service you prefer to just shut their account down, as apposed to approaching them and informing them in a kind manner and explaining the situation? As it seems to imply you prefer the aggressive approach.

If other forums can manage to maintain their policies without an aggressive stance and aggravating new members then I fail to see why forum2.co.uk can’t manage to maintain their policies in the same manner. It is obviously a different matter if the administrators / moderators prefer to abuse their power over the smallest of errors caused by new members.

markcastle · 29th March 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

Sorry Mark, I would have to disagree with you there, if the moderators / administrators of this forum had adopted the strategy I outline it would have worked without fail.

Disagree? Disagree implies that you think i was putting forward an argument or an opinion.. i wasn't. I was informing you of the history of the forum and it's policy towards spammers. It's not exactly something you can agree or dissagree with unless you are a time traveller and can go back and change the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

If a forum the size of WebHostingTalk.com can maintain their policies and they average over 800 active users a day, I cannot see how forum2.co.uk which is significantly smaller and probably far less active a forum fails to be able to manage the job at its current size.

What happens on a completely different forum is absolutely irrelevant. This forum is owned by a private individual. If they decide that only people with green hair and a limp can post, then thats the way it will be whether you or i like it or not. If you don't like the rules then, to be quite frank, i don't think many here will care a great deal..., the rules work for that vast majority of us here (hint: or we wouldn't be here and the forum probably wouldn't be half as successful as it is).

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

Do you adopt the same policy with your own customers? Do you treat new users to your hosting service in the same manner? So if one of your customers fails to understand a TOS / Rule to your service you prefer to just shut their account down, as apposed to approaching them and informing them in a kind manner and explaining the situation? As it seems to imply you prefer the aggressive approach.

Again.. irrelevant. My company / policies / attitude to clients is nothing to do with this thread, so please don't be silly and suggest such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

If other forums can manage to maintain their policies without an aggressive stance and aggravating new members then I fail to see why forum2.co.uk can’t manage to maintain their policies in the same manner. It is obviously a different matter if the administrators / moderators prefer to abuse their power over the smallest of errors caused by new members.

As above.

This isn't WHT. It's a much better place than WHT IMHO.

Like i said... welcome to Forum2 :-)

Karl · 29th March 2005

I'm with Mark here, Forum2 has the policies it has, because of past happenings, frankly, if you can't read the rules, then you've no right to post - Also, you keep banging on about posting on similar forums - Then you should be well aware about advertising on forums then, and how it generally works and that you should take time to read the rules, even WHT has specific advertising rules that are different to other forums.

Bloory · 29th March 2005

I think in part the advertising policy holds back the growth of the board. If just anyone posted offers, we'd be inundated with the "my host was in lessons when the server went down" or "the server was so overloaded it kept crashing" sort of threads you see over there.

chrisbyrd · 29th March 2005

WHT used to be great

I cant stand it now - I like Forum2 because its different and I wouldnt like to see it go down the same route as WHT

Cranky · 29th March 2005

I have to agree, I like things the way they are. The mods do a good job.

NS-Icon · 29th March 2005

Hi all,

Thanks for your responses, Forum2.co.uk is a different type of forum then as I have come to understand, I can’t see this forum becoming anything close to WHT.

I don’t have the time to continue posting on the topic so think I will bring it to a close, but to be honest with you, as the post has been made forum2.co.uk views would be biased. Another approach would be to start a new thread on another forum requesting what people think of the policies here, but I am not going to provide forum2.co.uk with that added advertising.

But as I outlined earlier, there are other ways such situations could be resolved, yet maintaining a warm welcome to the community.

Also, looking at the response provided by the forum administrator:

1) Member not part of the "web hosts" group

Ok, I see this forum requires members to be part of a web-hosts group, cant understand why, but anyway, why not just place a restriction on posting if a user is not a member of the group as apposed to commenting afterwards?

Would it not make more sense?

2) User failing to meet minimum post criteria for advertising

Ok again, like other forums, why not just restrict the ability to make a post in the advertising section of the forum unless you number of posts equals the permitted amount for forum advertising?

3) User posted new advert without minimum re-post criteria

Same as the above, option 2

4) User obviously can’t read, otherwise would have taken the time to read forum TOU

This one is very clear and right to the point; nothing can be made any clearer.

Just some suggestions to make the forum2.co.uk place better maybe? Or do administrators / moderators enjoy wasting their time responding to threads which fail to meet post criteria etc.

Anyway, I won’t spend any more time making comments on this topic as it seems to have been answered, and the views seem to point in one direction, in favour for the aggressive attitude towards new members and not allowing for any margin of error what so ever on the new members part.

Again if the above outlined by the administrator cause so much concern and warrant a instant ban then I would strongly consider setting up post restrictions.

Thanks for your time folks,

Regards,

chrisbyrd · 29th March 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

I can’t see this forum becoming anything close to WHT

i personally wouldnt use it if it got anything like WHT

NS-Icon · 29th March 2005

You are on the right forum then Chrisbyrd

but WHT does provide a wealth of information and reviews on various website hosts which greatly assists new users when it comes to selecting a hosting provider.

chrisbyrd · 29th March 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by NS-Icon

You are on the right forum then Chrisbyrd

but WHT does provide a wealth of information and reviews on various website hosts which greatly assists new users when it comes to selecting a hosting provider.

i totally agree with you on that

my point is that the atitudes of the posters and moderators on WHT really irritate me... not sure why though

Bloory · 29th March 2005

WHT also attracts a huge number of "suppliers/providers" who bring our industry into disrepute, which is bad for all of us. I don't mind picking up business from them, but don't like being tarred with that brush